like when you're like PLEASE SIR I NEED A KIDNEY
and they're like

http://www.pacdudegames.com/fail/ 

Lol Screwb 

Couple that with even a minute rational assessment of the logistics and consequences of nuking Israel and you should realize that you have been led to absurd conclusions about other people's lives pretty much exclusively by fear and ignorance.

You would, except that the people who believe this horseshit don't make rational assessments. 

Oh, and Ahmadinejad's bluster is basically what would happen if Rush Limbaugh was elected president. They're both full of shit, but since people keep tuning in, they'll keep shovelling it out. 

Never fear the loudmouth.
The crazy killers are always the quiet guy everyone liked.

/stares at Norway 

gerf said:

Also, once my body is the property of the Government, they'll use that to pass laws requiring weight loss, diets, compulsory care, or, not to be dramatic, lack of care after a certain age.

I tuned into C-SPAN while flipping stations in the car and some Republican was talking about their healthcare bill.
He was submitting an amendment to the R-healthcare plan so that it could allow for smokers to be charged more.
In his remarks, he pointed out that many private companies which offer employees healthcare already do this to the tune of $20~$50 per month. 

Legal row over Gaza report intensifies
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8347861.stm

Already there have been attempts to arrest Israeli military officers visiting Britain, leading to what Israel's David Benjamin calls a "de facto travel ban".

Whaa?
Google: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/10/27/world/AP-EU-Britain-War-Crimes.html

Oct 27th said:

[British Lawyer] Machover said the effort started before the Gaza offensive began in late December and also involves lawyers in other countries who are working to bring cases based on the concept of universal jurisdiction, which allows countries to arrest and try people for crimes unrelated to their own territory or nationals.

''These sorts of legal activities come about because of the failure of many Western governments to hold Israel to account for what it does,'' [Chris Doyle, director of The Council for Arab-British Understanding] said.

 

and your insurance company will have any say on what treatment you get.

No, they get to decide what to pay for, depending on what coverage I've paid for. I can still have whatever I want done, it just might not be paid for. Canada is going to a pay model the last I heard, when the guvmint won't pay. 

He was submitting an amendment to the R-healthcare plan so that it could allow for smokers to be charged more.

It's not a partisan issue, as both sides would do shit like this. Thanks for proving my point.

As for the "health care option" it's not really optional. When you introduce a government run institution that does not need to compete, it will eventually dominate a market. 

If people can still choose private insurance, and it is stipulated that the government option needs to pay for itself with premiums from people who are buying into it, in what sense is it not optional, and in what sense does is it not optional, and in what sense does it not need to compete? 

And I repeated myself there for ... um, emphasis. 

Canada is going to a pay model the last I heard, when the guvmint won't pay.

Again...

1. The system up here is handled by the provinces, not by the fed.
2. Some provinces (namely my own) are run by morons who are sabotaging the public system for political reasons.
3. Yeah, there's some stuff they won't pay for, because it's experimental or because the doctors aren't sure the patient will live through it.

But just keep parroting those talking points, why would anyone listen to someone who has actually experienced the medical system in Canada when some lying meatbag can just e-mail you more bullshit.

But keep 

Tukka said:

If people can still choose private insurance, and it is stipulated that the government option needs to pay for itself with premiums from people who are buying into it, in what sense is it not optional, and in what sense does is it not optional, and in what sense does it not need to compete?

They were talking about this on the radio too. The idea being that the public plan is just one of many available from a health insurance exchange.

When you look at the prices we pay and the outcomes we get, compared to most other Western Countries, the USA is experiencing a market failure in the health care & insurance industries. 

So, aboot that Dem win in NY-23:

The race has now been called for Democrat Bill Owens.

This is a huge win for conservatives.

“Whaaaa. . . ?” you say.
...
First, the GOP now must recognize it will either lose without conservatives or will win with conservatives. In 2008, many conservatives sat home instead of voting for John McCain. Now, in NY-23, conservatives rallied and destroyed the Republican candidate the establishment chose

So, the right-wing schism grows. Excellent. The GOP can shed it's rabid mob of freaks and extremists and maybe field a few candidates that don't go all GWAD GAWD SOCIALISM WWARRGHARBLE when asked to think for themselves. 

http://www.adn.com/palin/story/1000006.html

I want to go so bad. 

So, she's gonna be touring at Wal-Marts along the interstate?

There are women who do that already, if I recall correctly.... 

Think of all the money she'll save by sleeping in the Winny out in the Walmart parking lot. 

Think of all the money she'll make by sleeping in the Winny for $400 a pop out in the Walmart parking lot.

 

Luke E Pierre said:

http://www.adn.com/palin/story/1000006.html

I want to go so bad.

I followed a link and ended up here:
http://www.newswise.com/articles/researcher-s-analysis-shows-buying-alaska-no-sw eet-deal-for-american-taxpayers

Barker argues that the federal government spent so much money to acquire Alaska (the $7.2 million in gold had the value of about $10 million in greenback currency at the time), then govern the area and build the infrastructure needed to access its resources that whatever financial benefits the state has provided have been far offset by the costs.

 

If Sarah charged 400$, I would double that. I would offer her 800$ but I would get to call her Hillary and she would have to call me Levi.

So hot. 

and in what sense does it not need to compete?

They don't go bankrupt.

1. The system up here is handled by the provinces, not by the fed.

Oh, I hadn't seen this point before. That's actually more tolerable, as each individual province/state might find different ways to be more efficient or provide better services at price points.

I still think it's overly expensive, but at least it's a regional method. 

Oh, I hadn't seen this point before.

Probably because you rarely pay attention to anything that doesn't confirm your preconceived views. 

Date: 7/12/09 @ 4:04 AM
KNW said:

And from here on in, I'm not replying to any post wherein the dipshit poster continues to think Ottawa controls the health care system in Canada beyond providing additional funding to top up any provincial shortfalls. It's a provincial concern, it's provincial money, it's provincial rules; anyone who just blurts out "Canada health care blah blah" is just spewing misinformation.

"Search this thread" shows us that KNW has had to keep making this point over and over.
I have a question though: Do you know if the Canadian Gov't collects any specific taxes which it uses to cover provincial shortfalls? 

Probably because you rarely pay attention to anything that doesn't confirm your preconceived views.

Not really, I just hadn't seen it. Notice that when I finally did see it, I commend it. Hell, I've even had a few positive Obama posts in here. Sadly, I get behind reading this thread, and sometimes have to skip a few pages, so I probably missed this point about the Canadian health care system.

But, go ahead and keep your views about me if you want. 

and sometimes have to skip a few pages, so I probably missed this point about the Canadian health care system.

I want to say that between Wander and KNW
this point has been mentioned at least 100 times in this thread.

I'm not going to give you any sort of credit for learning information you should have already known. 

Do you know if the Canadian Gov't collects any specific taxes which it uses to cover provincial shortfalls?

There are "equalization payments" to "have-not" provinces each year, but these amounts are part of the Federal budget every year and are not covered by a specific tax of their own. 

They don't go bankrupt.

Is there language in this bill to say that the policies must pay for themselves or not?

Politicians that try to subsidize the public option through tax money will have a very, very hard time keeping their seats. Stop worrying. It won't take over the industry, especially while there are millions of scared rednecks out there that don't want the gubmint in their business. There will continue to be a large market for private health insurance, even if it's more expensive. 

Wander said:

There are "equalization payments" to "have-not" provinces each year, but these amounts are part of the Federal budget every year and are not covered by a specific tax of their own.

Pretty much like our education systOH MY GOD.

Our education system is socialist! HOW DID WE NEVER SEE THIS BEFORE OH DEAR GOD NO PLEASE NO 

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1126286.html

Israel dismally fails the requirements of a tolerant pluralistic society, according to a new report from the U.S. State Department.

Despite boasting religious freedom and protection of all holy sites, Israel falls short in tolerance toward minorities, equal treatment of ethnic groups, openness toward various streams within society, and respect for holy and other sites.

I don't mean to be picking on Israel, but it seems like the US Gov't playing a full court press.
/and it's the internet, TFA should link to the damn report 

well duh 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPMjC9mq5Y

Older and probably posted before but I got a laugh out of it. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/06/a-day-at-the-freak-show-a_n_348559.html

Any "article" that has a headline that starts with "A day at the freak show" should be taken with a grain of salt, however still an interesting read. 

The evils of what passes for patriotism in America.

sad, really. 

Edie McClurg with a stellar appearance at 4:27 mark. Five stars! 

JT WOOD AT 6:30?????

OMG! 

awww....we're all pretty much used to left wing protests (which resemble freakshows too) - hell it's been going on for years. But the left really freaks out when the right protests something. Conservatives finally changed a little though and are getting out and trying their hand at what liberals have been doing for years. For years, you never saw a conservative protest rally. They're really not doing bad if you think about it. They've got their point out and made people talk about it whether you agree with them or not. Hell you guys all freak out when there they do this, so it's obviously having an effect. 

I live about 40 miles outside of DC and want to make it one of these tea bagger protests to take some photos and see these poeple first hand but haven't had a free day to get down there. 

BECAUSE IT'S FUNNY! 

(which resemble freakshows too)

Because of the long hair, jews and blacks? 

come on bash... jews don't do the rally thing.
not so good, anyway. 

/reaches for Old Testament 

I think it is any Americans right to protest but you have to admit the tea baggers and their ilk are terribly misinformed almost indoctrinated and misguided in their views.

They have a great passion for what they think are injustices impossed on them but few have any solution beyond "OMG OBAMA IS THE DEVIL"

Also it looks to me that many of these people would like to stage a revolution unfortunately for them they are mostly middle aged or retired folks and stay at home moms who would quickly die in a coup d'état.

What is scary to me is the lack of concern for the truth and the amount of effort put into obscuring the facts and keeping the tea baggers uninformed by their "de facto" leaders Glen Beck et al.

If the roles were reversed and the protesters carried signs saying things like "unarmed this time" etc the conservatives would cry treason and anti American. It is my opinion that the talk radio pundits hate this country and are attempting to destroy it. 

the thing that's so funny about it rash, is that when conservatives see liberal protests, they think the very same thing... they're terribly misinformed, indoctrinated... maybe throw in some youthful ignorance. They think the very same thing you do when they see you guys doing it. No surprise here. 

I understand that Jedi and don't disagree but in my 35 years on this planet I haven't seen so many people on both sides fail to offer solutions to anything. Sure the internet has a lot to do with our current political landscape. There are a shitload of sites on both sides that give the average joe a place to vent and rally like minded people into a frenzy when in years past access to other peoples opinions was limited to local social circles. This coupled with public education being in the shitter and a lack of critical thinking is going to lead us into disaster IMO. 

I guess I should say I am a liberal believe in social programs for various reason but I also have some serious issues with some people in congress that identify as liberal including Pelosi. I think the Democrats made a serious error with her. We needed someone that would be able to eloquently state the party's position and advance the agenda but she fails at anything other than pissing people off. The rest of the leadership is passing up opportunity to fix things. Not that the Republicans have made anything easy, they twist everything out of proportion making even simple things meant to help the American people impossible to pass. 

the thing that's so funny about it rash, is that when conservatives see liberal protests, they think the very same thing... they're terribly misinformed, indoctrinated... maybe throw in some youthful ignorance. They think the very same thing you do when they see you guys doing it. No surprise here.

Except for the whole lack of emphasis on facts and solutions thing.
When liberals are protesting most of the time they're protesting as a result of being informed about,
rather than being actionably afraid of something as these tea baggers appear to be.

Whether they're doing it for attention or for a cause,
most of the liberal protesting I've seen has required extensive knowledge about what is being protested,
rather than loud, brightly colored affirmations of patently false information parroted by blowhards.
The information relied on to protest is often a lot broader and more intensely research among the liberal protests I've seen over the conservatives,
and doesn't come from the same 4 or 5 people. 

Much better stated by slutbinwalla than me. 

they're terribly misinformed, indoctrinated...

Jedi, please tell us, where do you think this liberal indoctrination and/or misinformation come from? 

the teabaggers know something is wrong (we debate it in this thread 14/7) but tbs don't know what it is
the evidence is that if you ask tbs if they want to give up their medicare they will say no
the very right wing (like Dick Armey,what a penis name) are using this fear to try to make it look like very right wing has popular support
but they can't get 20% support except on the richest streets and with the fearful
not that the Democrats are much better 

Liberal anti-war protestors mostly stayed on-topic by calling Bush a murderer and talking about Halliburton/oil/etc.
Conservative anti-Obama protestors are all over the place & their message is getting drowned in a sea of wharrgarbl.